The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 27

M^r Wilson & Doc^r Johnson moved, that "or any of them," after "United States" be struck out in order to remove the embarra.s.sment; which was agreed to nem. con.

M^r Madison. This has not removed the embarra.s.sment. The same Act might be treason ag^{st} the United States as here defined--and ag^{st} a particular State according to its laws.

M^r Elseworth. There can be no danger to the gen^l authority from this; as the laws of the U. States are to be paramount.

Doc^r Johnson was still of opinion there could be no Treason ag^{st} a particular State. It could not even at present, as the Confederation now stands, the Sovereignty being in the Union; much less can it be under the proposed system.

Col. Mason. The United States will have a qualified sovereignty only.

The individual States will retain a part of the Sovereignty. An Act may be treason ag^{st} a particular State which is not so ag^{st} the U.

States. He cited the Rebellion of Bacon in Virginia as an ill.u.s.tration of the doctrine.

Doc^r Johnson: That case would amount to Treason ag^{st} the Sovereign, the Supreme Sovereign, the United States.

M^r King observed that the controversy relating to Treason might be of less magnitude than was supposed; as the Legislature might punish capitally under other names than Treason.

M^r Gov^r Morris and M^r Randolph wished to subst.i.tute the words of the British Statute and moved to postpone Sect 2. art VII in order to consider the following subst.i.tute--"Whereas it is essential to the preservation of liberty to define precisely and exclusively what shall const.i.tute the crime of Treason, it is therefore ordained, declared & established, that if a man do levy war ag^{st} the U. S. within their territories, or be adherent to the enemies of the U. S. within the said territories, giving them aid and comfort within their territories or elsewhere, and thereof be provably attainted of open deed by the people of his condition, he shall be adjudged guilty of Treason."

On this question

N. H.--Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. no. M^d no.

V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

It was then moved to strike out "ag^{st} United States" after "treason"

so as to define treason generally, and on this question

Ma.s.s. ay. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a no.

N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

It was then moved to insert after "two witnesses" the words "to the same overt act."

Doc^r Franklin wished this amendment to take place. prosecutions for treason were generally virulent; and perjury too easily made use of against innocence.

M^r Wilson. much may be said on both sides. Treason may sometimes be practised in such a manner, as to render proof extremely difficult--as in a traitorous correspondence with an Enemy.

On the question--as to some overt act

N. H. ay. Ma.s.s. ay. C^t ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r King moved to insert before the word "power" the word "sole," giving the U. States the exclusive right to declare the punishment of Treason.

M^r Broom 2^{ds} the motion.

M^r Wilson in cases of a general nature, treason can only be ag^{st} the U-- States, and in such they sh^d have the sole right to declare the punishment--yet in many cases it may be otherwise. The subject was however intricate and he distrusted his present judgment on it.

M^r King this amendment results from the vote defining treason generally by striking out ag^{st} the U. States, which excludes any treason ag^{st} particular States. These may however punish offences as high misdemeanors.

On inserting the word "sole." It pa.s.sed in the negative

N. H. ay. Mas. ay. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d no.

V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. no.--

M^r Wilson. the clause is ambiguous now. "Sole" ought either to have been inserted, or "against the U. S." to be re-instated.

M^r King no line can be drawn between levying war and adhering to enemy ag^{st} the U. States and ag^{st} an individual State--Treason ag^{st} the latter must be so ag^{st} the former.

M^r Sherman, resistance ag^{st} the laws of the U. States as distinguished from resistance ag^{st} the laws of a particular State, forms the line.

M^r Elseworth, the U. S. are sovereign on one side of the line dividing the jurisdictions--the States on the other--each ought to have power to defend their respective Sovereignties.

M^r d.i.c.kenson, war or insurrection ag^{st} a member of the Union must be so ag^{st} the whole body; but the const.i.tution should be made clear on this point.

The clause was reconsidered nem. con--& then M^r Wilson & M^r Elseworth moved to reinstate "ag^{st} the U. S." after "Treason--" on which question

N. H. no. Ma.s.s. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. no. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. ay.

M^r Madison was not satisfied with the footing on which the clause now stood. As Treason ag^{st} the U. States involves treason ag^{st} particular States, and vice versa, the same act may be twice tried & punished by the different authorities. M^r Gov^r Morris viewed the matter in the same light--

It was moved & 2^{ded} to amend the sentence to read--"Treason ag^{st} the U. S. shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies" which was agreed to.

Col. Mason moved to insert the words "giving them aid and comfort," as restrictive of "adhering to their Enemies &c." the latter he thought would be otherwise too indefinite--This motion was agreed to: Con^t: Del: & Georgia only being in the Negative.

M^r L. Martin moved to insert after conviction &c.--"or on confession in open court"--and on the question (the negative States thinking the words superfluous) it was agreed to

N. H. ay. Ma.s.s. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P. ay. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N. C. div^d. S. C. no. Geo. no.

Art: VII. Sect. 2, as amended was then agreed to nem. con.

Sect. 3. taken up. "white & other" struck out nem. con. as superfluous.

M^r Elseworth moved to require the first census to be taken within "three" instead of "six" years from the first meeting of the Legislature--and on question

N. H. ay. Ma.s.s. ay. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. no.

M^r King asked what was the precise meaning of _direct_ taxation? No one answ^d.

M^r Gerry moved to add to the 3^d Sect. Art: VII. the following clause "That from the first meeting of the Legislature of the U. S. until a Census shall be taken all monies for supplying the public Treasury by direct taxation shall be raised from the several States according to the number of their Representatives respectively in the first branch".

M^r Langdon. This would bear unreasonably hard on N. H. and he must be ag^{st} it.

M^r Carrol opposed it. The number of Rep^s did not admit of a proportion exact enough for a rule of taxation.

Before any question the House

Adjourned.