A Report of the Debates and Proceedings in the Secret Sessions of the Conference Part 42

This is only one of the many proofs which my own experience would furnish of the propriety, if not the necessity of keeping each Department of the Government by itself--of not connecting it with others, and of making the agents of each Department responsible to itself alone. Carry this idea into practice in all the Departments of the Government, and a better cla.s.s of agents would be secured, and the loss by defaulters would be much lessened.

The enormous increase of the expenditures of the General Government might, by the same process, be prevented. How does it happen that in a time of peace these expenses have risen from twenty-three millions of dollars up to seventy or eighty millions? In the same proportion, the sum to which they will reach in another decade will be frightful! It is high time that a stop was put to this lavish expenditure, and especially to the losses by dishonest agents. The plan here proposed will give you a starting point. The proceeds of the vast domain of the public lands are now so mingled with the other expenditures of the Government, that no one can tell what becomes of them. They are now common plunder. Divide them among the States, and they will be saved--they will be applied to some worthy object, and you will have adopted a principle which, after a little time, under any honest administration, will be applied to the other Departments of the Government. I trust the whole amendment may be adopted. As the amendment may be divided into two parts--one relating to appointments to office, and the other to the public domain--I would ask that the vote may be taken upon each proposition separately.

The vote was then taken upon the first portion of the amendment proposed by Mr. SEDDON, with the following result:

AYES.--Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Missouri--5.

NOES.--Maine, New Hamps.h.i.+re, Vermont, Ma.s.sachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa--14.

And the amendment was rejected.

Mr. JOHNSON:--I cannot concur in the vote just given by Maryland. I desire to have my dissent recorded.

Mr. CRISFIELD:--I dissent, also, from the vote of Maryland.

President TYLER:--The last part of the amendment will be considered as withdrawn.

Mr. McCURDY:--I move to amend the subst.i.tute proposed by Mr. FRANKLIN, by adding thereto the following words:

"_Provided_, That nothing in this article contained shall be so construed as to carry any law of involuntary servitude into such Territory."

Mr. GUTHRIE:--I hope we shall reject all such amendments. I consider this simply procrastination.

Mr. JOHNSON, of Missouri:--I wish to raise a point, a question of order. This conflicts directly with the sense of the subst.i.tute proposed. We ought not to entertain it.

The vote was taken upon the amendment proposed by Mr. McCURDY, with the following result:

AYES.--Maine, New Hamps.h.i.+re, Vermont, Ma.s.sachusetts, Connecticut, New York, and Iowa--7.

NOES.--Rhode Island, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois--13.

And the amendment was rejected.

Mr. ORTH:--I dissent from the vote of Indiana.

Mr. RUFFIN:--I rise to inquire whether it will now be in order to offer a subst.i.tute? I have one which I wish at the proper time to present.

The PRESIDENT:--The question is now upon the adoption of a subst.i.tute--that offered by the gentleman from Pennsylvania--to the first section of the article reported by the committee. I do not think any other subst.i.tute is in order at the present time.

Mr. CHASE:--I hope that this vote may be postponed, and I will briefly state the reason why. I am informed that a delegation from the State of Kansas has arrived during the day, and that their credentials are now in the hands of the appropriate committee. That committee has not yet reported, and cannot until they have a meeting after our adjournment. The credentials of three of these delegates have been presented by myself but a few minutes since. The Committee on Credentials, I am informed, will not report until Monday. I wish the youngest State in the Union to express her opinion upon this motion. I therefore move an adjournment.

Mr. EWING:--I do not think any delay is necessary. We can let them vote on Monday.

Mr. SUMMERS:--I only wish to say a word of explanation in behalf of the Committee on Credentials. The delay in the case of Kansas is not the fault of that committee. The delegates themselves think it better that the report should not be made until all the delegates arrive who are expected. The committee can report at any time.

The vote was taken on the motion to adjourn, with the following result:

AYES.--Maine, Ma.s.sachusetts, Connecticut, New York, and Indiana--5.

NOES.--New Hamps.h.i.+re, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Missouri--12.

So the motion to adjourn was negatived.

The PRESIDENT:--The question will now be taken upon the subst.i.tute of the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. FRANKLIN), offered for the first section of the article reported by the committee.

Which vote being taken, resulted as follows:

AYES.--Maine, New Hamps.h.i.+re, Vermont, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois--14.

NOES.--Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Missouri--4.

And the subst.i.tute was agreed to.

Mr. FIELD:--There seems to be a misapprehension as to the proper time for offering subst.i.tutes for the whole report of the committee. I shall act upon the understanding that the proper time to offer them will be when we have gone through with the report of the committee. If I am wrong I wish to be corrected now.

Mr. LOGAN:--I am informed that Mr. LINCOLN, the President-elect, has arrived in this city. I feel certain that the Conference would desire to treat him with the same measure of respect which it has extended to the present inc.u.mbent of that high office. I therefore move that the President of this Convention be requested to call upon the President-elect of the United States, and inform him that its members would be pleased to wait upon him in a body at such time as will suit his convenience, and that this Convention be advised of the result.

The motion of Mr. LOGAN was agreed to unanimously.

Mr. WILMOT:--I move an adjournment to half-past seven o'clock this evening.

The motion was agreed to, and the Conference adjourned.

EVENING SESSION--SIXTEENTH DAY.

WAs.h.i.+NGTON, SAt.u.r.dAY, _February 23d, 1861._

The Conference was called to order by the President, at half-past seven o'clock.

The PRESIDENT:--I have addressed a note to the President-elect, announcing the desire of the Conference to offer their respects to him in a body, at seven and one-half o'clock this evening, or at such other time as would be agreeable to him. I have received his reply, stating that he will be pleased to receive the members of this body at nine o'clock this evening, or at any other time which may suit their convenience.

The Conference then proceeded to the order of the day, being the consideration of the second article of the section reported by the committee.

Mr. GUTHRIE:--I move to strike out the second article, and to insert the following in its place:

"Territory may be acquired for naval and commercial stations and transit routes, and by discovery, and for no other purposes, without the concurrence of four-fifths of the Senate."

It is generally conceded that under our present Const.i.tution the United States have no power to acquire territory for coaling or naval stations, within the country of a foreign power. It was the committee's intention to remedy this defect by the present section.

But as it stands, I do not like it. The idea is somewhat awkwardly expressed. I wish to have the enabling power conferred in direct terms.

Mr. SUMMERS:--I would ask to interrupt the order of business for a moment, in order to make a report from the Committee on Credentials, in the Kansas case. The defect adverted to in the case of Mr. STONE, has been supplied to the satisfaction of the committee, and Messrs.

CONWAY, EWING, and ADAMS, have also presented themselves as delegates from the State of Kansas, with proper credentials. It has not been our practice heretofore to admit members by a formal vote, nor do I see any necessity for making the case of Kansas an exception. The committee would suggest that the clerk enter the names of these gentlemen upon the roll of delegates, unless objection is made.

The PRESIDENT:--The Secretary will make the entry, as no objection is made.

Mr. SUMMERS:--Some days ago I introduced into the Conference, and caused to be printed, a subst.i.tute which I proposed to offer for the second section of the committee's article. I offer it now, as follows: