The Trial of Charles Random de Berenger, Sir Thomas Cochrane Part 18

_Q._ You are the Attorney for the prosecution?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did you see Mr. De Berenger in the custody of the messenger, in the course of the month of April?

_A._ Several times.

_Q._ In the course of those interviews did you see him write?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ Did you see him write a good deal?

_A._ Yes, a considerable deal, I saw a whole letter which he handed me across when he had written it, and it was given back and copied again, and for about an hour he was writing different things and handing backwards and forwards.

_Q._ Did you also see his papers in his writing desk?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ From the observation you made upon his writing, seeing him writing as you did at those several interviews, do you or do you not believe that to be his hand-writing?

_A._ I verily believe it to be his hand-writing from what I saw him write, but I am more impressed with its being his hand-writing, or at least the impression of its being his hand-writing is strengthened by what I saw of his writing.

_Q._ Do you believe, from what you saw him write, that that is his hand-writing.

_A._ Yes I do most solemnly, I did not see the letter till afterwards, and the moment I saw it, I concluded that to be his hand writing, and said so at the time.

_Mr. Park._ What you said at the time is no evidence, and you know that.

_Mr. Gurney._ Did your observation of it enable you to say you believed it to be his hand writing?

_A._ I have said so.

_Mr. Park._ You know as well as any man, that what you said to any body is no evidence.

_Lord Ellenborough._ It is a measure strongly indicative of his persuasion, it is an act accompanying his seeing it.

_Mr. Gurney._ Does Mr. De Berenger always write as large as that, or does he write a hand as large as that, and a smaller one also?

_A._ His usual hand is a good deal smaller than this.

_Q._ Did you find him sometimes writing larger than at other times?

_A._ Yes, there was apparently in his letters a larger hand in writing, I could positively swear that the man who wrote those I saw, wrote this, only one was larger than the other.

_Cross examined by Mr. Park._

_Q._ You told my learned Friend just now, that you formed your mind not only from what you saw him write, but from what you saw in his writing desk?

_A._ That confirmed my mind.

_Q._ Upon your oath, if you had not seen those writings in his Desk, would you have taken upon yourself to swear that it was his hand writing?

_A._ I think I should, but that makes it much stronger in my mind.

_Q._ I ask you again and will have a positive answer to the question, if you had never seen those other writings to which you have alluded, would you upon the mere circ.u.mstance of having seen him write, have taken upon you to swear that you believed that to be his hand writing?

_A._ I could have sworn it not quite so strongly, I could have sworn to my verily believing it, but I can now swear without the least doubt that it is his.

_Q._ That is because I have examined you perhaps?

_A._ No it is not.

_Q._ You verily believe that to be his writing, do you?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Look at that and tell me whether you believe that to be his hand writing, (_shewing a letter to the witness_) you need not open it, I have shut it for the purpose.

_A._ Yes I do, that is more like what I saw him write than this; I believe that to be his hand writing.

_Mr. Park._ I will put a letter A upon it; will you be so good as to look at that account, (_shewing it to the witness_) and tell me whether you believe that to be his hand writing.

_A._ I can only say this is the sort of hand he writes.

_Q._ Will you swear that is his hand writing.

_A._ That appears to me to be the same sort of hand.

_Mr. Park._ I will mark this B. They are very much alike.

_A._ They are more like the sized hand he writes in common than this, this is a larger hand.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Do you believe these to be Mr. De Berenger's hand writing? (_shewing three papers to the witness_).

_A._ They are all like his hand writing.

_Lord Ellenborough._ I think this should be kept for your case--I never saw any thing like this in my life.

_Mr. Gurney._ I take for granted these are meant to be produced in the defence?

_Lord Ellenborough._ You must be conscious that you are doing an irregular thing in tendering them now.

_Mr. Park._ I am not conscious my Lord, of doing an irregular thing.

_Lord Ellenborough._ I mean in tendering evidence at a time when it is not open to the Defendant to do so.

_Mr. Park._ But I may try the credit of the Witness by shewing him these.