The Trial of Charles Random de Berenger, Sir Thomas Cochrane Part 48

_Q._ Did Mr. Sandom give you any thing?

_A._ Not at that time.

_Q._ Did he pay for the chaise?

_A._ He did not, not there.

_Q._ Has he since given you any thing?

_A._ He asked us what house we stopped at, I told him the Bull at Kent Street end, and he came to us there, and gave my fellow-servant a one pound note, and the remainder in silver for him and me together.

_Q._ Did he pay for the chaise?

_A._ He did not pay for the chaise.

_Q._ Did either of the other two return with him?

_A._ They did not.

_Mr. Francis Baily called again._

_Examined by Mr. Bolland._

_Q._ In consequence of enquiries that had been made, did Mr. Holloway attend the Committee of the Stock Exchange?

_A._ He did.

_Q._ Did Mr. Lyte attend also?

_A._ Afterwards he did with Mr. Holloway; first Mr. Holloway came, and denied having any knowledge of the transaction.

_Q._ Did you see him again at any other time?

_A._ Yes, very near the time of the bill being found; I cannot tell whether before or after that, he came with Mr. Lyte and confessed that he was the person who had planned that plot, or partic.i.p.ated in it.

_Q._ State what he said as nearly as you can recollect?

_A._ He said that he had done it with a view to obtain money by a rise in the public funds; and Mr. Lyte stated, that he was one of the parties who had been employed by Mr. M'Rae, at Mr. Holloway's suggestion; at Holloway's or M'Rae's.

_Q._ Did either of them say who were the actors in the plot?

_A._ Mr. Lyte said that he and Sandom and M'Rae rode in the post chaise from Northfleet to Dartford, and afterwards from Dartford to London.

_Lord Ellenborough._ In whose presence did Lyte state this?

_A._ Mr. Wakefield was present, Mr. Lavie was present, and a Mr.

Chaumette.

_Q._ Was Holloway present then?

_A._ Yes he was; they both came together.

_Q._ What Lyte stated was in the presence of Holloway?

_A._ Exactly so. Holloway stated that he did it with a view of obtaining money, by the rise in the funds.

_Q._ Did he state any thing more?

_A._ He stated that he was not aware of the serious turn it would take; that he did not contemplate it in that point of view at first; but finding that it had taken so serious a turn, he had come forward and confessed it, in the hope that the Stock Exchange would not pursue it to extremities, and carry on the action against him, or the prosecution: He was asked whether he had any connection with Lord Cochrane, Cochrane Johnstone, or Mr. b.u.t.t, which he denied.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Pell._

_Q._ Do you know what it was that immediately led to Mr. Holloway's making this communication to the Stock Exchange?

_A._ No I do not; nothing more than the publicity of the measures which they were taking to follow up the parties, I believe.

_Q._ Did you not learn at the time from Mr. Holloway during this conversation, and from Mr. Lyte, that M'Rae had offered to come forward for a very considerable sum of money and state his knowledge of the transaction?

_A._ That had been stated before publicly I believe in Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's letter.

_Q._ I ask as to the conversation at the time, do you recollect whether or not at the time of this interview between Holloway, Lyte, and the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, any thing was said about M'Rae's having offered to be a witness for a large sum of money?

_A._ There was certainly something said, but whether it was mentioned first by the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, or by Mr. Holloway, I cannot recollect.

_Q._ Did not Mr. Holloway state, that in order to prevent the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange paying a large sum of money for the communication that would be paid in fact for nothing, he would come forward and state the part of the transaction in which he was concerned?

_A._ I believe he did.

_Q._ It was understood by the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, was it not, that that communication of M'Rae's was supposed to extend to my Lord Cochrane's part in the transaction?

_Mr. Gurney._ What was understood cannot be asked.

_Mr. Serjeant Pell._ I ask as to what was said at the time, was it not said that M'Rae's communication was to affect Lord Cochrane's share in the transaction?

_A._ I do not recollect that that was stated.

_Q._ I think you stated that Mr. Holloway or Mr. Lyte distinctly a.s.serted, that this business of theirs had nothing to do with that in which Lord Cochrane was concerned?

_A._ He did.

_Q._ Do you know what was the sum that it was stated M'Rae was to be a witness for, was not it so large a sum as 10,000?

_A._ That sum had been stated in a letter which pa.s.sed?

_Q._ Was it not stated in the conversation?

_A._ I believe it was; but the subject of the communication of M'Rae was so little attended to by the Committee, that it never entered their heads that any such sum should be paid.