The Trial of Charles Random de Berenger, Sir Thomas Cochrane Part 93

_Q._ You are secretary to the Commander in Chief?

_A._ I am.

_Q._ Do you remember any application being made in the department with which you are connected, in behalf of Captain De Berenger?

_A._ I do.

_Q._ About what time was that?

_A._ It was in the latter end of December, or the beginning of January.

_Q._ Do you recollect by whom the application was made?

_A._ Sir Alexander Cochrane.

_Q._ What was the purport of it?

_A._ Sir Alexander came to me twice, I think, if not three times, to urge the appointment of Mr. De Berenger to go to America, for the purpose of applying his talents as a light infantry officer, to the service on which Sir Alexander Cochrane was about to embark.

_Q._ Were any difficulties started to this application?

_A._ Great difficulties.

_Q._ What objection was made to it?

_A._ I represented----

_Lord Ellenborough._ I do not know to what point this applies?

_Mr. Brougham._ Merely that it confirms the statement made by Lord Cochrane, and shows a connexion between the different parties, consistent with that statement.

_Lord Ellenborough._ It shows that he was acquainted with Sir Alexander Cochrane, and that he recommended him to the appointment; we are not trying the propriety or impropriety of the orders of Government?

_Mr. Brougham._. No, my lord; but Lord Cochrane's statement refers to the difficulty itself.

_Lord Ellenborough._ But what the difficulties were is not at all material; it would be going into that with which we have nothing to do?

_Mr. Gurney._ I do not object to it.

_Mr. Brougham._ I will not enter into it, my lord. In consequence of those difficulties which were felt, the appointment did not take place?

_A._ It did not.

_Q._ But the appointment, in consequence of this application, came under the consideration of the Commander in Chief's office?

_A._ Certainly.

_Q._ Were those difficulties, without asking what they were, particularly personal to Captain De Berenger?

_Lord Ellenborough._ No; that we cannot ask.

_Mr. Park._ It goes to character?

_Lord Ellenborough._ Then put the question to character at once; you must not go indirectly into it, if Colonel Torrens knows his character at all.

_Mr. Park._ You do not know, personally, his character?

_A._ I do not, personally.

_Q._ Are you acquainted with the hand-writing of Mr. De Berenger?

_A._ Not in the least.

_Q._ You have never seen him write?

_A._ I never did.

_Q._ Have you received letters, purporting to be from him upon subjects of business, and have you answered and acted upon those letters?

_A._ I do not recollect, since I have been military secretary ever to have received any.

_Q._ He had been, I believe, in the rifle corps of the Saint James's.

_A._ I believe he had.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Do you know him, personally?

_A._ I know nothing of him, personally.

_Henry Goulburn, Esq. M. P. sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Serjeant Best._

_Q._ You are under secretary of state for the colonial department?

_A._ I am.

_Q._ Can you tell us, whether any and what application was made to your department for Mr. De Berenger going abroad with Lord Cochrane?

_Lord Ellenborough._ The terms of the application I think we cannot hear; I do not think Government secrets (when I say secrets, I mean the detail of them) ought to be stated; we cannot go further than the fact, that an application was made.

_Mr. Serjeant Best._ That is all we want, my lord; was any application made to the colonial department?

_A._ Yes; there was.

_Q._ By whom?