I Met The Walrus Part 2

Traffic was unusually congested as the bus approached King Street. Standing impatiently at the front and holding on to the pole, I could see why. The lanes in front of the King Edward Hotel were blocked off. I asked the driver to let me out. I leaped onto the street and ran towards the hotel. Police on horses, trolleys, religious and political protesters, draft dodgers, peddlers, the Mounties, and kids-tons of kids-were all parading in front of the entrance. In the morning the setting was serene. Now it was a circus, a Beatle circus starring John and Yoko.

Police were holding back the crowd and I slipped my way into the revolving front doors. In the lounge a haggard looking man in his early thirties was having a drink, a scotch I think, and munching on peanuts. There was a reel-to-reel tape recorder in a case, at his feet. Before I could ask him if he was from CHUM, he said, "You the kid?" "Yes," I proudly replied, and I discerned, even at my young age, a look of disbelief on his face. He was one of the deejays at CHUM-FM. And he was about to play technician for a kid in the presence of the biggest rock star of all time. He gulped the remnants of his drink, grabbed his case, and said, "Let's go."

[image]

I walked again into the bra.s.s-plated elevator with the British crown embossed all over it. Time stood still as I watched the arrow above the door smoothly move from floor to floor until it hit eight. The door opened but as soon as I stepped out, two big palms pressed against my chest and forcefully pushed me back into the elevator. It was a burly cop who was stationed on the floor. The deejay flashed his ID. "He's with me," he said. "He has an interview. It's legit." The cop motioned us to get out and waived us on. As I stepped out I could see dozens of kids in the hall, roped off by the police, hoping to get a glimpse of Beatle John Lennon. One of them was a kid from school. "Jerry! Jerry! Let me in with you. Please! Please!" he begged. I shrugged my shoulders. I hardly knew him and I was not in the mood to share my good fortune.

As we turned the corner, a row of reporters and journalists sat single file on chairs facing the closed door of the suite. Most of them seemed to be American media. That was what John wanted and they were all eager to get an audience with him.

When John casually said to a British journalist in 1966 that the Beatles were more relevant to youth than Christianity, it created a worldwide backlash that resulted in record burnings and death threats. Paul McCartney gave a truthful answer as to whether he had tried LSD and it made headlines. A statement from the controversial John Lennon condemning America's involvement in Vietnam would have been a bombsh.e.l.l. It was as if the press were egging him on and hoping for the political Beatle to take a stand. (Years later Nixon tried to have John deported when he became even more outspoken about the Vietnam War. The U.S. government saw Lennon as such a serious threat that the FBI closely monitored his actions and created a file on him that was more than four hundred pages long.) It was no surprise then that they all sat there in fervent expectation.

It was a minute or two before 6:00 P.M P.M. and I strutted to the door, the deejay deferentially behind. All of them sitting there were hoping for an audience. No one had been let in. John and Yoko had been at Canadian customs for hours in the afternoon and had just recently returned to the hotel. A seasoned reporter grabbed my arm and stopped me. "Where you going, Buster?" he muttered, clearly not wanting to give up his place in the pecking order. "I have an appointment at 6:00," I said, trying to break free to the laughter of everyone there. The door opened. Derek Taylor appeared, immaculate and proper as always. "Where is the lad?" he spoke in the Queen's English. I waved and broke free from the reporter and walked by them all to gasps of astonishment.

Derek led me to a chair placed in front of an empty couch. He directed the deejay to set up his equipment. Kyoko was in the room dancing around in front of a record player that played a new Beatle single. There was no mistaking the sound and the voice of John Lennon singing in harmony with Paul McCartney. It was "The Ballad of John and Yoko." I heard this single for the first time, before anyone, in John's hotel room. It would be released within days.

[image]

Me and my hero, face to face.

"John and Yoko will be out in a few minutes. They are getting dressed," Derek told me and walked away. It was at that moment-with only the deejay, Kyoko, and I in the room-that I realized I had not prepared a single question. My panic was interrupted when John and Yoko plopped down right in front of me. His long hair had brushed my cheek. He moved fast in a bouncy, excited, childlike sort of way. "Do you want a photo then?" he said softly, eyeing the Brownie around my neck. "Sure," I answered. The deejay took the camera off my neck and said, "I'll take it." It would be weeks before I would see the photograph: John and I looking into each other's eyes, just inches away from each other.

"ASK AWAY," JOHN SAID, AND I BEGAN TO TALK.

JERRY: John, could you please tell us what the situation is with you and your entry into the United States?

JOHN: It's still sort of nowhere, you know? Like a lot of people don't want me in, you know; they think I'm gonna cause a violent revolution, which I'm not. And the others don't want me in 'cause they don't want me to cause peace either. War is big business, you know, and they like war 'cause it keeps them fat and happy, and I'm anti-war so they're trying to keep me out. But I'll get in 'cause they'll have to own up in public that they're against peace. It's still sort of nowhere, you know? Like a lot of people don't want me in, you know; they think I'm gonna cause a violent revolution, which I'm not. And the others don't want me in 'cause they don't want me to cause peace either. War is big business, you know, and they like war 'cause it keeps them fat and happy, and I'm anti-war so they're trying to keep me out. But I'll get in 'cause they'll have to own up in public that they're against peace.

JERRY: What can we as the youth do to try and help you?

JOHN: Help me by helping yourselves. Just think that the militant revolutionaries...ask them to show you one revolution that turned out to be what it promised militantly. Take Russia, France, anywhere that had civil war. They all start out with good intentions. What they do is smash the place down then build it up again and the people who build it up hang on to it and then they become the establishment. You guys are going to be the establishment in a few years. It's not worth knocking it down 'cause it's convenient to have the rooms and the machinery. The thing is to protest, but protest nonviolently. Violence begets violence, you know, and if you run around wild you get smacked, and that's it. That's the law of the universe. And they've got all the weapons and they've got all the money and they know how to fight violence 'cause they been doing it for thousands of years, suppressing us, and the only thing they don't know about is nonviolence and humor. There's many ways of promoting peace, and we are doing it with humor and nonviolence. It's convenient for John and Yoko to stay in bed, you know. It might be convenient for other people. We just use some of our time. The position we're in is under a fishbowl, in a fishbowl. What we're doing now is having a mirror in the fishbowl and reflecting back what happens to us. That's all we can do. But there's many ways of protesting for peace. Do everything for peace. p.i.s.s for peace or smile for peace or go to school for peace or don't go to school for peace. Whatever you do, just do it for peace. Think peace and you'll get it. You've got to want it. It's up to the people. You can't blame it on the government and say "oh, they're doing this" or "they're going to put us into war." We put them there, we allow it, and we can change it-if we really want to change it we can change it. Help me by helping yourselves. Just think that the militant revolutionaries...ask them to show you one revolution that turned out to be what it promised militantly. Take Russia, France, anywhere that had civil war. They all start out with good intentions. What they do is smash the place down then build it up again and the people who build it up hang on to it and then they become the establishment. You guys are going to be the establishment in a few years. It's not worth knocking it down 'cause it's convenient to have the rooms and the machinery. The thing is to protest, but protest nonviolently. Violence begets violence, you know, and if you run around wild you get smacked, and that's it. That's the law of the universe. And they've got all the weapons and they've got all the money and they know how to fight violence 'cause they been doing it for thousands of years, suppressing us, and the only thing they don't know about is nonviolence and humor. There's many ways of promoting peace, and we are doing it with humor and nonviolence. It's convenient for John and Yoko to stay in bed, you know. It might be convenient for other people. We just use some of our time. The position we're in is under a fishbowl, in a fishbowl. What we're doing now is having a mirror in the fishbowl and reflecting back what happens to us. That's all we can do. But there's many ways of protesting for peace. Do everything for peace. p.i.s.s for peace or smile for peace or go to school for peace or don't go to school for peace. Whatever you do, just do it for peace. Think peace and you'll get it. You've got to want it. It's up to the people. You can't blame it on the government and say "oh, they're doing this" or "they're going to put us into war." We put them there, we allow it, and we can change it-if we really want to change it we can change it.

JERRY: Do you know anything about [Canadian prime minister Pierre] Trudeau? Are you pleased with him?

JOHN: Trudeau seems okay. I don't really know about him. I don't know if he's just another one of them. You can't really tell you know. But his image seems better than the others. His image in Britain was okay. He was swinging and he wore a leather coat, that kind of thing, so I don't know whether that's just an image. He said on the air that he'd like to meet us, but he doesn't know about his schedule. Now that's either games that he's playing or he means it. Well, we'll find out and you'll know by the time we've left here whether we saw him or not. If we saw him there's a chance he's okay, and if we don't see him, you'll know what games he's playing. Trudeau seems okay. I don't really know about him. I don't know if he's just another one of them. You can't really tell you know. But his image seems better than the others. His image in Britain was okay. He was swinging and he wore a leather coat, that kind of thing, so I don't know whether that's just an image. He said on the air that he'd like to meet us, but he doesn't know about his schedule. Now that's either games that he's playing or he means it. Well, we'll find out and you'll know by the time we've left here whether we saw him or not. If we saw him there's a chance he's okay, and if we don't see him, you'll know what games he's playing.

JERRY: I'm not sure what he said. I think he said that you wanted to give him acorns to plant. And he said, "I'd like to meet him but I'm not sure about planting the acorns," or something like that.

JOHN: Well, I just heard that, too, and he said he might not have time to plant the acorns. I don't know what that means, Mr. Trudeau. How much time does it take to stick your finger in the soil? You know and if he'll see us, we'll explain to him how easy it is to plant acorns. Well, I just heard that, too, and he said he might not have time to plant the acorns. I don't know what that means, Mr. Trudeau. How much time does it take to stick your finger in the soil? You know and if he'll see us, we'll explain to him how easy it is to plant acorns.

JERRY: You know if you see him, I've met him twice personally, and ever since then I started liking him, etc., and I like him. I think if you see him and talk to him, I think maybe then you probably could work out some answers.

JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.

[image]

A collage of rare and never before seen photos taken by me and the Toronto Star Toronto Star photographer. I remember being struck by how attentive they were to each other. Jeff Goode/ photographer. I remember being struck by how attentive they were to each other. Jeff Goode/Toronto Star.

JERRY: Are you planning to stay in your bed-in for seven days in Montreal?

YOKO: Yes.

JERRY: What about Paul, Ringo, and what's his name...

JOHN: George. George.

JERRY: George [laughing], what about them, are they peaceniks also?

JOHN: Yeah, they're peaceniks also, like, we're all four individuals, and George was saying to me just before I left on this that he's with me all the way but he says he was feeling a bit guilty 'cause he wasn't coming out shouting too. He says, "I'm different from you and you've always been the loudmouth and the talker." And that's my gig. George is doing it in his own way with the musicians and the people he meets and the way he goes about his life. It's like that, you know. It's no good shouting in the street corner "I want peace," and then beating up your mate, you know. You've got to try to work your own head out and get nonviolent. It's b.l.o.o.d.y hard because we're all violent inside. We're all Hitler inside and we're all Christ inside, and it's just to try and work on the good bit of you. It's just convenient to live in peace, you know. Yeah, they're peaceniks also, like, we're all four individuals, and George was saying to me just before I left on this that he's with me all the way but he says he was feeling a bit guilty 'cause he wasn't coming out shouting too. He says, "I'm different from you and you've always been the loudmouth and the talker." And that's my gig. George is doing it in his own way with the musicians and the people he meets and the way he goes about his life. It's like that, you know. It's no good shouting in the street corner "I want peace," and then beating up your mate, you know. You've got to try to work your own head out and get nonviolent. It's b.l.o.o.d.y hard because we're all violent inside. We're all Hitler inside and we're all Christ inside, and it's just to try and work on the good bit of you. It's just convenient to live in peace, you know.

JERRY: Both of you produced a film called The Rape The Rape. Is it coming to Canada?

JOHN: We'll show it as soon as we can. If we could get some kind of visa we might show it while we're here. We'll show it as soon as we can. If we could get some kind of visa we might show it while we're here.

JERRY: I saw when Magical Mystery Tour Magical Mystery Tour came to the O'Keefe, I was pretty much impressed and I was wondering if all four of you are planning on making any more films. came to the O'Keefe, I was pretty much impressed and I was wondering if all four of you are planning on making any more films.

JOHN: We are. We just did a sort of doc.u.mentary on the Beatles making an alb.u.m, and it's amazing to see what the h.e.l.l we go through [laughter]. I don't know how all this language is going to get through your school board. But it's amazing to see all the stress and strain we go through to make an alb.u.m. That's a movie in itself. But to find a vehicle for four apes like us without making another We are. We just did a sort of doc.u.mentary on the Beatles making an alb.u.m, and it's amazing to see what the h.e.l.l we go through [laughter]. I don't know how all this language is going to get through your school board. But it's amazing to see all the stress and strain we go through to make an alb.u.m. That's a movie in itself. But to find a vehicle for four apes like us without making another Help! Help! or or A Hard Day's Night A Hard Day's Night is pretty tough going. So if we come up with something we'll do it and if we don't we won't. It's just like that. is pretty tough going. So if we come up with something we'll do it and if we don't we won't. It's just like that.

JERRY: About your alb.u.m Two Virgins Two Virgins. Today after I got your signature earlier, I went to show it to my vice princ.i.p.al and my teachers, they saw it before and liked it very much, they get their kicks out of it, they're pretty much impressed, but there's this one guy, on my way back...

JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.

JERRY: It was where my mother works and the butcher is there and he got very upset and started telling me, "It's filth and I feel sorry for you even to look at something like it." So I just glanced over in the corner, and I saw there was this nudie picture of this lady on a calendar.

JOHN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

JERRY: So I tell him, "What do you call that?" And he calls it "art."

JOHN: Oh yeah, well those people are mental, you know. Oh yeah, well those people are mental, you know.

JERRY: [Laughs.]

JOHN: And there's nothing much we can do about them. They're the old generation, and we've got to try and contact with them 'cause I mean it's no good us going around saying, "We're hip" and then taking no notice of them. We've got to try and break through to them. Well, he knows. He knows d.a.m.n well. We're all naked, man. And I don't mind. And there's nothing much we can do about them. They're the old generation, and we've got to try and contact with them 'cause I mean it's no good us going around saying, "We're hip" and then taking no notice of them. We've got to try and break through to them. Well, he knows. He knows d.a.m.n well. We're all naked, man. And I don't mind.

[image]

John smoking one of his numerous French Gitanes cigarettes. Jeff Goode/Toronto Star.

DEREK TAYLOR: What's this, John?

JOHN: Oh, it's just some butcher [laughs]. And he had a pinup on the wall, you know, and he was saying to the guy here, "It's disgusting, that Oh, it's just some butcher [laughs]. And he had a pinup on the wall, you know, and he was saying to the guy here, "It's disgusting, that Two Virgins Two Virgins alb.u.m." I don't know what to do about those people. We know where they're at. And just leave them alone. Give them their dirty pictures and we can get on with changing the world. alb.u.m." I don't know what to do about those people. We know where they're at. And just leave them alone. Give them their dirty pictures and we can get on with changing the world.

JERRY: I read in the paper in an advertis.e.m.e.nt for "Get Back" and "Don't Let Me Down" and you say you do "the nifty guitar bit."

JOHN: [laughs] Ah yeah, the fab guitar bit [laughs]. [laughs] Ah yeah, the fab guitar bit [laughs].

JERRY: Everyone seems to think that George is the nice guitarist, and stuff like that, I'm not too keen on George, I like him and all that but you and Paul sort of like send me. I had a feeling that you're sort of drifting away from people. You're still like sort of a symbol, Beatles, like G.o.d, but in school if you ask them who their favorite group is they'll say the Bee Gees and stuff like that.

JOHN: Yeah, well the Beatles, they've been around too long for a lot of kids, we're old, you know, but we'll be around for a long time anyway, you know, making good records. But you can't get enthusiasm, the day-to-day who's in, who's out. We lose that all the time. Like when we left Liverpool, before we left Liverpool, we were playing in one club, and we were very in. We left that club and went to another club and we lost a lot of fans there, Beatles, you know, and we left Liverpool and they complained 'cause we left Liverpool 'cause you can never be in with some crowds. They're always going to want the latest, whether it's the Bee Gees or the Mop Tops. You know, they go for c.r.a.p all the time. And you leave them with that. You can't wait for them people. You can't keep kowtowing to their tastes, and I think the Beatles will probably get less and less fans but they'll be a d.a.m.n sight more intelligent [laughing] than the ma.s.s of fans we've had, probably. You know, we can't afford to wait for the fans. We couldn't afford to stay in the Cavern in Liverpool and kowtow to two hundred people. We had to get out and make five hundred people listen and in that way we lost maybe one hundred of the two hundred and got another fifty further up the road. And you just gotta go on like that, swapping your audience. But you judge us on our music, not what the guy in cla.s.s is saying. Yeah, well the Beatles, they've been around too long for a lot of kids, we're old, you know, but we'll be around for a long time anyway, you know, making good records. But you can't get enthusiasm, the day-to-day who's in, who's out. We lose that all the time. Like when we left Liverpool, before we left Liverpool, we were playing in one club, and we were very in. We left that club and went to another club and we lost a lot of fans there, Beatles, you know, and we left Liverpool and they complained 'cause we left Liverpool 'cause you can never be in with some crowds. They're always going to want the latest, whether it's the Bee Gees or the Mop Tops. You know, they go for c.r.a.p all the time. And you leave them with that. You can't wait for them people. You can't keep kowtowing to their tastes, and I think the Beatles will probably get less and less fans but they'll be a d.a.m.n sight more intelligent [laughing] than the ma.s.s of fans we've had, probably. You know, we can't afford to wait for the fans. We couldn't afford to stay in the Cavern in Liverpool and kowtow to two hundred people. We had to get out and make five hundred people listen and in that way we lost maybe one hundred of the two hundred and got another fifty further up the road. And you just gotta go on like that, swapping your audience. But you judge us on our music, not what the guy in cla.s.s is saying.

JERRY: I'll talk to some kids in school, most of them like the Bee Gees and stuff like that....

JOHN: The Bee Gees are okay, you know. They make some good music. But they're a different bag from us. There's plenty of other groups than us and the Bee Gees. The Bee Gees are okay, you know. They make some good music. But they're a different bag from us. There's plenty of other groups than us and the Bee Gees.

JERRY: What they'll say, the reason for it...I'll ask them why they don't like the Beatles-they're fantastic, they're great. They'll say because, for example, there are the marijuana charges and "They're all hippies and they're gone from us, they're dirty now."

JOHN: Oh, yeah, I see. Well those kids, they sound like son-of-square and [laughs] your job is to hip 'em up either to the Beatles or anything else. They've just got to get from underneath their parents' wings. Oh, yeah, I see. Well those kids, they sound like son-of-square and [laughs] your job is to hip 'em up either to the Beatles or anything else. They've just got to get from underneath their parents' wings.

JERRY: I know. They're like robots. It's a pity...

JOHN: Yeah, right. You've got to show them what a good time you're having. Yeah, right. You've got to show them what a good time you're having.

JERRY: Oh yeah, I have a really good time. My brother-in-law has a fantastic stereo set, and that was the first time I enjoyed you artistically, and I listened to Sgt. Pepper Sgt. Pepper on it and I nearly blew my top. I had the music on full blast with the earphones. on it and I nearly blew my top. I had the music on full blast with the earphones.

JOHN: That's how we make it. Full blast. The only way to listen to Beatles music is full blast. That's how we make it. Full blast. The only way to listen to Beatles music is full blast.

JERRY: Right! That's what I was saying. Now I listen to your double LP [the White Alb.u.m White Alb.u.m] and Two Virgins Two Virgins and I go crazy, really. This week I have a presentation in English... and I go crazy, really. This week I have a presentation in English...

YOKO: John, we should give him our new record.

JOHN: We just got John and Yoko's latest alb.u.m with us. I'll give it to you now-it's called We just got John and Yoko's latest alb.u.m with us. I'll give it to you now-it's called Life With the Lions Life With the Lions. It'll really blow your mind. It's a live performance Yoko and I did in Cambridge in England to the students, and it was strange for me playing to two hundred people instead of thirty thousand [laughs] but I really dug it, and I'll give you the alb.u.m now. You can play it around. It'll blow your mind.

JERRY: Fantastic. You know my stereo set is just a normal $100 one with just two speakers and it's not half as much, but when I listen to it I can at least dream of the experience I had listening to it on his stereo...the experience I had of it and that's the first time I've ever really taken a liking to something as much as that.

JOHN: That's great. If you're the only one in school that can dig That's great. If you're the only one in school that can dig Two Virgins Two Virgins or or Life With the Lions Life With the Lions that's enough for us. It's a start. We read...they asked some people in a pop paper... that's enough for us. It's a start. We read...they asked some people in a pop paper...

[image]

More photos by me and the Toronto Star Toronto Star photographer Jeff Goode. Jeff Goode/ photographer Jeff Goode. Jeff Goode/Toronto Star.

DEREK: I think one in a thousand is pretty good [laughter].

YOKO: Life With the Lions Life With the Lions, we have to give him a copy.

JOHN: Go and get it then. Go and get it then.

YOKO: Where is it?

JOHN: Ah hah! [Laughter.] In one of the twenty-nine bags. Some twelve-year-olds turning on to Ah hah! [Laughter.] In one of the twenty-nine bags. Some twelve-year-olds turning on to Life With the Lions Life With the Lions in England. One of the pop papers asked the kids to criticize it 'cause most of the criticism of John and Yoko music is "What is it?" [Laughter.] It's amazing. Twelve-year-olds writing, "I play this every morning before I go to school, it blows me mind." Yoko is always saying, "They'll get it, they'll get it." And I say, "They're not going to get it, there's no off-beat." And she was right. You know, it's going to be pop music in five years what we're doing now. in England. One of the pop papers asked the kids to criticize it 'cause most of the criticism of John and Yoko music is "What is it?" [Laughter.] It's amazing. Twelve-year-olds writing, "I play this every morning before I go to school, it blows me mind." Yoko is always saying, "They'll get it, they'll get it." And I say, "They're not going to get it, there's no off-beat." And she was right. You know, it's going to be pop music in five years what we're doing now.

JERRY: Everyone seems to think the best alb.u.m of yours was Sgt. Pepper Sgt. Pepper. I disagree. I think you better yourselves all the time. For example, the double LP, I was wondering...I never try to think of you...start studying with a microscope...

JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.

JERRY:...your alb.u.ms...till I find out...it just comes to me and once I just got this feeling out of your double LP after I was listening to it for a long time...and it just came to me...this is probably just a coincidence...but I started to get this feeling that there's a message in it. And the message was, on the first side seemed to delve into the lives of people. Like, for instance "Back in the USSR" which I think is life in the UK?

JOHN: It's anywhere, you know. It's anywhere. Messages are there on all levels in all music. And whatever level you get it on, I've had it too when I wrote it or sang it. But some of that stuff, I write it, record it, and play it, and I don't hear it till a few months later and I'm lying down with a set of headphones and listening to a Beatles alb.u.m and try to hear it in retrospect, objectively. And then I hear it and say, "Oh, was I saying that? Oh, I see, I see what it's about." And it's about everything. It's about UK, about USSR, and it's about nothing and it's about the USA. Anything you hear is there. It's all there, either trivial or profound, whatever, it's all there. And the same as in a flower, everything's there. It just is, and if you look long enough, everything...all answers [laughs] are in it and the same with the music. It's anywhere, you know. It's anywhere. Messages are there on all levels in all music. And whatever level you get it on, I've had it too when I wrote it or sang it. But some of that stuff, I write it, record it, and play it, and I don't hear it till a few months later and I'm lying down with a set of headphones and listening to a Beatles alb.u.m and try to hear it in retrospect, objectively. And then I hear it and say, "Oh, was I saying that? Oh, I see, I see what it's about." And it's about everything. It's about UK, about USSR, and it's about nothing and it's about the USA. Anything you hear is there. It's all there, either trivial or profound, whatever, it's all there. And the same as in a flower, everything's there. It just is, and if you look long enough, everything...all answers [laughs] are in it and the same with the music.

JERRY: This is probably a d.i.n.ky question to ask you but the Maharis.h.i.+, I was wondering, do you think he was just a farce? I want it right from the mouth.

JOHN: He wasn't a farce. I still meditate now and then. I just found that I couldn't do it every day. It's like exercising, you know. I couldn't get up and touch me toes every day. But the meditation was good and the three months in India produced all them songs on the alb.u.m [the He wasn't a farce. I still meditate now and then. I just found that I couldn't do it every day. It's like exercising, you know. I couldn't get up and touch me toes every day. But the meditation was good and the three months in India produced all them songs on the alb.u.m [the White Alb.u.m White Alb.u.m], not the fact that I was just in India, the fact of what I was doing, the meditation, and how I felt. So they all thought he conned us out of money. He never got a penny out of us. All he got was publicity. And he was for peace, so we gave him publicity, that's okay. He's a good guy, you know. And if he did con other people out of money I don't know. Somebody will find out and so what. Money's only paper so let him have it. But he gave me a lot. He gave me an experience and he tripped me out in India and I don't regret it one bit. I'm here now, and that's the end of it really.

JERRY: Was it George...the only thing I can get to know what's happening really is to read what I can get out of the papers and one of these magazines with pictures...and all I can get is that George is sort of the only one who's thinking of breaking out of the Beatles...he's the one who's sort of dwelling into his own little laurels, writing his own kind of music, like Wonderwall Music Wonderwall Music...

JOHN: What do you think I'm doing with Yoko? What do you think I'm doing with Yoko?

JERRY: I never thought of that [laughter].

JOHN: What would you think I'm doing? They're always blaming me for that. Ringo Starr is making these films all the time. I'm writing songs, you know. We're all doing, I mean, I was writing them books years ago. We're all doing our own gig as well as Beatles. You know, one is the Beatles and the other is four individuals. What would you think I'm doing? They're always blaming me for that. Ringo Starr is making these films all the time. I'm writing songs, you know. We're all doing, I mean, I was writing them books years ago. We're all doing our own gig as well as Beatles. You know, one is the Beatles and the other is four individuals.

DEREK: The Beatles are five ent.i.ties, the Beatles and its four members.

JOHN: Yeah. One is the Beatles and the other is four individuals. Yeah. One is the Beatles and the other is four individuals.

JERRY: I read your book The Penguin The Penguin [ [In His Own Write]; I borrowed it out of our library. Our school is pretty hip, they have a whole bunch of Beatle books. And there's one poem of yours..."Poor Nigel."

JOHN: Arf! Arf! Arf! Arf!

JERRY: It keeps on driving me buggy and I'll keep on remembering it.

JOHN: That's great [laughter]. It drove me buggy too till I wrote it down. That's great [laughter]. It drove me buggy too till I wrote it down.

JERRY: I wanted to finish this...about your double LP, the first side was mainly about people. And the second side I sort of get the feeling it's about love-"Martha My Dear," about Paul's dog, and "Julia" about your mother.

JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.

JERRY: And the third side sort of got into the feelings of sensation. "Birthday" gave me a really crazy kind of feeling.

JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.

JERRY: And the fourth side, it was all about life. "Revolution" then "Revolution 9," which I could go on about for ten years, that's the most greatest thing you ever did...

JOHN: Good. Good.

JERRY: Number nine, number nine. Anyway, you put all these together and you get People, Love, Sensation of Life.

JOHN: Well, you just get what four guys are going through at that time, where the Beatles are at or what they are feeling at that time. And that's four guys' experience all trying to get it on one hour's plastic, you know, you got it all out of it. And we didn't constantly say, "Now this side is going to be about that and this side is going to be that." We set it out like a show and juggled with it for about twenty-four hours and listened to all them tracks over and over saying, "No, that one kills that one if you have them next to that one." And we're laying it out like that. And it turned out like you said. It's just four guys' experience and we're singing about it. We reflect where we're at at the time and how we're feeling the moment we're making the record. Well, you just get what four guys are going through at that time, where the Beatles are at or what they are feeling at that time. And that's four guys' experience all trying to get it on one hour's plastic, you know, you got it all out of it. And we didn't constantly say, "Now this side is going to be about that and this side is going to be that." We set it out like a show and juggled with it for about twenty-four hours and listened to all them tracks over and over saying, "No, that one kills that one if you have them next to that one." And we're laying it out like that. And it turned out like you said. It's just four guys' experience and we're singing about it. We reflect where we're at at the time and how we're feeling the moment we're making the record.

JERRY: In "Revolution 9," it seems to be about what you're bringing a child into.

JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.

JERRY: But at the beginning, and this I could only pick up with a good stereo, and it had something near the end, "Yes, you f.u.c.king b.i.t.c.h, you should have thought about that before you f.u.c.ked Laura, George." I was trying to think of what was going on here.

JOHN: I don't remember saying that. I have no idea what we were saying on it. We just rambled on. There were many loops and tapes and I was cutting up Beethoven and playing him backwards, anything I could lay me hands on. It's a montage, and George, Yoko, and I just talked all through it. But the very end piece is where Yoko comes in on a ca.s.sette saying, "And there you stand naked...." What about that bit? The very end, the voice of me changes? But I don't remember I don't remember saying that. I have no idea what we were saying on it. We just rambled on. There were many loops and tapes and I was cutting up Beethoven and playing him backwards, anything I could lay me hands on. It's a montage, and George, Yoko, and I just talked all through it. But the very end piece is where Yoko comes in on a ca.s.sette saying, "And there you stand naked...." What about that bit? The very end, the voice of me changes? But I don't remember f.u.c.king f.u.c.king or or a.s.sholes a.s.sholes or anything like that. Although it might have been there, I don't know. or anything like that. Although it might have been there, I don't know.